[wix-users] Suitability of MSI

Tue May 5 11:28:28 PDT 2020

I would not try to compare Windows install issues with other platforms like
Linux. Those platforms are incredibly different. It would be like comparing
apples and chicken. Yes, apples and and chicken can be considered food but
that is about as close as it gets. Trying to apply Linux best practices to
Windows will lead to pain.

Windows installations are difficult because they require more than copying
files and modifying files. Windows Installer installations are difficult
because the engine requires a declarative approach and forces the setup
developer to think about things they typically do not think about like how
do I rollback an operation or how do I repair a broken installation.
Windows Installer installations are difficult because the engine requires
that you consider current state and make decisions about everything you
want to do before you do it, including what do to if a rollback is
necessary.

Personal opinion: One of the things that makes the Windows Installer
difficult is that it has a very high bar for reproducibility and
reliability. I know it sounds counter intuitive but nearly all *nix
deployment platforms only track files to be installed and removed. That's
about it. They have no built-in rollback and cannot reliably do so because
their extension model is /bin/sh allowing you to do anything at all at
practically any time. The result is that you get developers writing a lot
of imperative code in pre/post scripts for various cases were the only
thing the platform really provides is xcopy and some form of relatively
questionable dependency management. Okay, the dependency management
provided is clearly good enough and is better than none (Windows doesn't
have anything really for dependency management... so...) Anyway, the main
point I'm trying to make is that *nix platforms tend to make it easy to
write scripts because it is all just "easy to understand" imperative code
but ultimately it is no more reliable than anything else. There are
effectively no guarantees. There is no rollback and repair and upgrade and
hotfix and other concepts from Windows simply do not really exist or look
different enough to not be considered the same.

You could "simplify" matters by using zip as a container format (like so
many open formats do) and use your preferred scripting language (perhaps
powershell) to do the work. You could build a simple executable engine that
can extract the zip and run scripts and copy files at the right time. Your
extension mechanism is now just your chosen scripting language with simple
and/or non-existent restrictions. But a word to the wise, I've done this
before. It is incredibly difficult, time consuming, and, ultimately, error
prone. I left about 4 and half years of my life working 16-20 hour days,
6-7 days a week, nearly 52 weeks a year and it was the worst experience I
have ever had. Honestly, do *NOT* recommend it.

The Windows Installer is hard and some technologies are not making it easy
to work with them, I'm thinking of you IIS, but I personally think it is
the ONLY reliable installation platform on any operating system platform.
All other setup platforms are not reliable. They are just easy to work with.

--
Edwin G. Castro

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ven H <venh.123 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Edwin,
>
> Thanks a lot for the details. I know it's been a while. I agree with you
> on Database. After burning my fingers a lot, I have come to the same
> conclusion that MSI is not suitable for DB installation or upgrades or
> patches.
>
> But I feel with the same with IIS also. There are lots of IIS settings
> which are not supported by MSI. We can achieve them using Custom Actions,
> but these come with their set of issues like managing uninstall, Upgrades,
> patches etc.
>
> Also, we cannot control the sequence of installation of components.
> Managing clean installation & uninstallation of prerequisites is another
> challenge. Even areas like Upgrades and Patches bring in their own
> challenges.
>
> Also, my client has some specific requirements like retaining some config
> files post install / upgrade.  This adds another layer of challenge.
>
> Again, with all due respect, I am not complaining about WiX or the authors
> or even the community (since you guys have been really great in terms of
> technical help and support), but wondering whether there is a packaging and
> deployment mechanism which can address requirements like IIS, Databases,
> Patches, Upgrades etc in Microsoft world. Also wondering how other
> platforms like Linux manage complex deployments.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 12:26 AM Edwin Castro <egcastr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You should be able to do nearly everything you need to do with the
>> Windows Installer, MSI. You should be able to write custom actions for
>> those things that the Windows Installer engine doesn't do on it's own. The
>> WiX Toolset should provide most of the functionality you need that is not
>> provided by MSI. I'm thinking things like IIS and MS SQL Server database
>> deployments. That said I would caution against using MSI to install your
>> database.
>>
>> Databases are rarely installed on the same server where other application
>> components are installed. Often you install the front end web site and/or
>> web service APIs to many servers for horizontal scaling. Which of these
>> servers should the database be installed on? Likely none of them as likely
>> the database is a different server all together. In fact, the only server
>> that likely makes sense is the database server itself but your DBAs likely
>> will not allow that. Instead, you'll have to designate a server that will
>> have the database MSI installed that will not actually have the database
>> installed because the database will actually be deployed to another server.
>> You'll also need to guarantee that this "proxy server" is always the server
>> used to upgrade the database otherwise it will try to install the database
>> from scratch as the MSI product was not previously installed on a different
>> "proxy server".
>>
>> In my opinion, the Windows Installer is not the best option to manage
>> datastore deployments. On upgrade you change schema *and* migrate data from
>> old schemas to new schemas. In complicated deployments you'll want that
>> process to run outside the context of the Windows Installer. I think the
>> Windows Installer is a good option to install database deployment tools
>> which can then be used to manage the database deployment.
>>
>> The WiX Toolset does provide actions to create empty databases and
>> execute SQL scripts, inline and script files, which can be useful for very
>> simple deployments. The Windows Installer and WiX cannot know what actions,
>> if any, are appropriate for a rollback. You'll need to provide the scripts
>> that do that work. WiX will just execute them for you.
>>
>> I'd instead recommend looking into database migration tools instead. My
>> quick google search found Flyway DB as an example. There were other options
>> years ago when I used them more regularly, including tools from Microsoft
>> for MS SQL Server. Some of these tools track changes and can migrate a
>> database from some snapshot to a future snapshot applying all changes in
>> between. Some of those tools allow you to undo those changes which could be
>> useful for rollback scenarios. Other tools work of a model which is
>> compared to the target database at runtime and the change script is
>> generated at runtime. Some DBAs do not trust these tools but they generally
>> rock! Highly recommended! The Microsoft offering used to work this way. Not
>> sure if it still exists nor how it has changed since 2013 when I last used
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> Edwin G. Castro
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 09:14 Ven H via wix-users <
>> wix-users at lists.wixtoolset.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I need to take care of the installation / configuration of the following
>>> features. Is MSI a best fit for all these requirements, especially
>>> Database?
>>>
>>> Prereqs Check (no installation / uninstallation)
>>> Enable / Disable Features
>>> Create / Update / Remove Registry Entries
>>> Register / Unregister COMs (with Heat)
>>> Register / Unregister GAC (with Heat and XSL transform)
>>> Set / Remove ACL
>>> Update IIS Settings (Web Site, Binding, Auth, Default Document, App Pool
>>> Props, Mime Types etc)
>>> Create / Remove Event Viewer Categories
>>> Start / Stop Services
>>> Add / Remove MSMSQ
>>> Add / Remove Shortcuts
>>> Install / Upgrade Databases (including Create / Update tables, Stored
>>> Procedures, Indexes, Triggers and so on)
>>> Lots of files (with Heat)
>>> Manage web.config files
>>> Custom Actions
>>>
>>> HotFix
>>> Repair
>>> Upgrade
>>> Rollback (including DB)
>>>
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>>>
>>