[wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances

Fri Feb 10 17:24:52 PST 2017

I mentioned before this will continue to work. The query API is used to find it initially, then we start falling back to registry searches just like before. I’ve been maintaining those registry searches for several releases now, and this is additive to how we find VSIXInstaller.exe. We’d have to do it for a new element anyway, but why make authors create a separate element? The new VSIXInstaller.exe is backward compatible. It is a tested scenario to install both a v1 and v2 into VS2017, and v3s can install as v2s since the manifest are merely additive. As long as there is an extension.vsixmanifest, it will work just like a v2 on VS2015 and older.

From: Sean Hall<mailto:r.sean.hall at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 3:30 PM
To: WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List<mailto:wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org>
Subject: Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances

Whether or not to create a new element is debatable.  Today it is possible
to use the VsixPackage element and install an extension on a machine with
only VS2010.  I want to make sure that this will continue to work.  My
prediction is that the implementation will be much easier to just create a
brand new element for v3 packages.

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Heath Stewart <heaths at outlook.com> wrote:

> Bob, VSIX v1s just can’t be posted to the Marketplace (formerly Gallery)
> if they don’t cap supported VS versions at VS2015. They should install just
> fine with the VS2017 VSIXInstaller.exe.
>
>
>
> Sean, most feedback we have received is that extension developers do want
> one package so that their comments and ratings apply. You or anyone are
> certainly welcome to have separate packages if you want. There certainly
> have been some that want separate packages, but I still see no reason for a
> separate element since VSIXInstaller.exe is backward compatible.
>
>
>
> *From: *Sean Hall <r.sean.hall at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Friday, February 10, 2017 2:46 PM
> *To: *WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List <wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
>
>
> I don't expect for extension authors that were previously shipping a VSIX
> package by MSI to just change their VSIX package to v3 and keep the
> installer the same.  If I were an extension author, I would keep using a v2
> VSIX package in the MSI for VS 2015 and earlier and completely change the
> delivery method for VS 2017 (and later).  I prefer to create installers
> that Just Work, and there are too many scenarios in the current design for
> an extension installed by an MSI to fail.  The original functionality of
> the VsixPackage element is needed to install into VS 2010, and IMO should
> be left alone.  In VS2017, the method of finding VSIXInstaller .exe
> changed, the required arguments changed, the potential target VS instances
> changed, etc.  The extension author needs to think differently about
> deploying v3 packages, and IMO it doesn't help them if we keep using the
> existing VsixPackage element.
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Bob Arnson <bob at firegiant.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't forget Dev10. That's why we suggested a separate element, to keep
> > Dev10 support for WiX v3.x.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wix-devs [mailto:wix-devs-bounces at lists.wixtoolset.org
> <wix-devs-bounces at lists.wixtoolset.org>] On Behalf
> > Of Heath Stewart
> > Sent: Friday, 10 February, 2017 17:21
> > To: Sean Hall <r.sean.hall at gmail.com>; WiX Toolset Developer Mailing
> List
> > <wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org>
> > Subject: Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> >
> > How would that solve anything? The same VSIXInstaller.exe installs v1s,
> > v2s, and v3s. The recommendation I've made to the VSIXInstaller.exe team
> > would handle the scenario of only apply to applicable SKUs - just like it
> > always have (based on what is authored within the extension and filtered
> by
> > optional command line switches). Seems not *requiring* installers to do
> > anything additional is most beneficial.
> >
> >
> >
> > VSIX v3s are backward compatible so they install into Dev14-. Most
> package
> > developers will not need to build separate packages, nor do they want to
> > (many have been consulted).
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Sean Hall<mailto:r.sean.hall at gmail.com <r.sean.hall at gmail.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 2:11 PM
> > To: WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List<mailto:wix-devs at lists.wix
> > toolset.org>
> > Subject: Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> >
> >
> >
> > I think this reinforces the idea of a brand new element, e.g.
> > Vsix3Package, for use with VSIX v3 packages.  The original VsixPackage
> > functionality and the new functionality is just so completely different
> > that I don't think it's worth the effort to try to present it to WiX
> users
> > as if they're the same thing.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Heath Stewart <heaths at outlook.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I've hit a wall but have a proposed solution to the VSIXInstaller team.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If I pass /instanceIds, the instances we'd install to are limited to
> > > those - no different than passing /skuName and /skuVersion (which are
> > > mutually exclusive with /instanceIds). But if we don't find any
> > > compatible instances and don't pass /instanceIds, the extension would
> > > install to all instances and, therefore, install dependent workloads
> > > and components. So there is no way currently to support both De14- and
> > > Dev15+. The only way would be to schedule all custom actions at
> > > install-time (i.e. don't schedule them - not even for Dev14- - until a
> > CA can determine what's applicable).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This doesn't feel like a great solution. It's complex and shouldn't be
> > > necessary, so I've proposed a solution to the VSIXInstaller team. It
> > > wouldn't be ready by RTW, though; it would have to ship after.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So rather than creating a complex solution for a short time and having
> > > to back it out for a solution that would work for any installer (even
> > > batch
> > > files) by having VSIXInstaller shoulder the burden, I propose waiting
> > > until the change is public and, in the interim, documenting (and even
> > > making the "shortcut" feature I proposed in wix4) the VSIXBootstrapper
> > > workaround now available here:
> > > https://github.com/Microsoft/vsixbootstrapper
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Heath Stewart<mailto:heaths at outlook.com <heaths at outlook.com>>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 10:12 PM
> > > To: Rob Mensching<mailto:rob at firegiant.com <rob at firegiant.com>>; WiX
> Toolset Developer
> > > Mailing List<mailto:wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org
> <wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org>>
> > > Subject: Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think we're on the same page. Only VSIX v3s can trigger workloads
> > > and components. VSIX v2s (and v1s, since that affects only marketplace
> > > scenarios as I understand it) work like they did before, so a new
> > > element should not be necessary. It's just that without dependencies
> > > authored into the MSI their install could break and I can at least
> > > emit a warning and refer them to the VSIX bootstrapper in almost done
> > > with (it'll have WiX sample authoring). I'll be posting signed
> > > versions via nuget pages WiX4 can reference to ship it with/in the VS
> > extension (MIT license).
> > >
> > > - Heath via Nine<http://www.9folders.com/> on Android
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Rob Mensching <rob at firegiant.com>
> > > Sent: Feb 3, 2017 9:33 PM
> > > To: Heath Stewart; WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> > >
> > > 1. My point is simply that adding support for VS2017 should not break
> > > people using VisxPackage to install a VSIX into VS2010, VS2012,
> > > VS2013,
> > > VS2015 today. If that means we need to introduce a new element (like:
> > > Vsix3Package) so that the old code still works, that's cool. But
> > > someone upgrading from WiX v3.10.3 to WiX v3.11 should not find their
> > > VsixPackage code broken. That's my key concern.
> > >
> > > 3. Yeah, let's not "pollute" WiX with yet another "Platform" concept
> > > anywhere (aka: "Chip). It's already hard enough that we have
> > > "Architecture", "Arch" and "Platform" floating around for the same
> thing.
> > > <smile/>
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >   Rob Mensching
> > >   CEO
> > >   FireGiant
> > > _______________________________________________________________
> > > FireGiant  |  Dedicated support for the WiX toolset  |
> > > http://www.firegiant.com/
> > >
> > > From: Heath Stewart [mailto:heaths at outlook.com <heaths at outlook.com>]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 1:32 PM
> > > To: Rob Mensching <rob at firegiant.com>; WiX Toolset Developer Mailing
> > > List <wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org>
> > > Subject: RE: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> > >
> > >
> > >   1.  But therein lies the problem Bob and Sean raised. While a VS2010
> > > SDK-built package should install even on VS2017, a VS2017 SDK-built
> > > package might fail the install because a concurrent MSI may install
> > > because of our on-demand feature. It's for this reason I'm currently
> > > working on finishing and publishing a simple bootstrapper that could
> > > be chained into a bundle that will do the same lookup I am proposing
> > > in the WIP. The impression I got from the thread was that because an
> > > install could fail because of the concurrent, out-of-proc
> > > (unfortunately, or we could solve it) MSI installs that it's too
> > > detrimental. But I think this can be largely mitigated by extensions
> > > only declaring what's needed (for example, the Core Editor workload is
> > > always installed - the default workload and sole source of vital
> > > packages), and even doing pre-checks if required. If there is cause
> > > for concern, they could use the simple bootstrapper and chain the VSIX
> > install with the bundle. So you feel that is sufficient for now?
> > >   2.  Sounds reasonable that new features (i.e. extension support for
> > > Chain) should go only in wix4.
> > >   3.  I can do that at least for authoring. The idea was to keep terms
> > > equivalent, and is "Chip" in the actual ISetupPackageReference
> > definition.
> > > Any strong feelings if the table column name should match authoring or
> > > interfaces? I'm tempted just to go all "Platform" if that's what you'd
> > > prefer for WiX (and is consistent with the Package element).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > > Windows 10
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Rob Mensching<mailto:rob at firegiant.com <rob at firegiant.com>>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:36 AM
> > > To: WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List<mailto:wix-devs at lists.
> > > wixtoolset.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> > >
> > >
> > > Overall, I think this is a great first step. A few things:
> > >
> > > 0. We *cannot* break people using VsixPackage today in WiX v3.x. I
> > > don't see anything in the WIP that says the current behavior will be
> > > broken but the "Deferred custom actions" section seems to touch the
> > > existing custom actions so I was unclear. The goal should be that you
> > > can install to VS2010, VS2012, VS2013, VS2015, VS2017 VSIXs in a
> > > single MSI (even if you may need multiple VSIXs).
> > >
> > > 1. All the work should be contained within the WixVsExtension. The WIP
> > > calls this out so I think this is handled. If we need to add
> > > extensibility points (in Chain element, for example) we can (and
> > > probably should) do that in WiX v4.0.
> > >
> > > 2. Minor nit: "Chip" attribute should be "Platform". "Chip" is a very
> > > unique term I've only seen used in VS setup authoring. <smile/>
> > >
> > >
> > > It will be great to continue to have the properites available in
> > > VS2017.exe and to teach VsixPackage to install VSIX3 just like it
> > > knows how to install VSIX1 and VSIX2 today.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wix-devs [mailto:wix-devs-bounces at lists.wixtoolset.org
> <wix-devs-bounces at lists.wixtoolset.org>] On
> > > Behalf Of Heath Stewart
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:02 AM
> > > To: WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List <wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org
> > > <mailto:wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org <wix-devs at lists.wixtoolset.org>
> >>
> > > Subject: Re: [wix-devs] Selection of compatible VS instances
> > >
> > > I followed up with the Extensibility team. The problem is that
> > > building v1 packages was deprecated in VS2012, but the VS2010 SDK
> > > could still build them in a way that supported v2 and the Gallery (now
> > > Marketplace) would accept them. However, the Marketplace will not
> > > accept packages that target
> > > 15.0 or newer and are missing the 2 files added to the VSIX container.
> > > Since VS2010 can't produce those the scenario is effectively broken.
> > > However, this only affects customers that still need to support VS2010
> > > and ship their VSIXes in both an MSI and on the Marketplace, which
> > > both our telemetry and conversations with partners found to be a very
> > > small set of customers.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What I'm seeing in this thread, however, is a lot of pushback because
> > > we cannot support 100% of customers who use MSIs - a technology being
> > > slowly deprecated by Windows. This is the extensibility model going
> > > forward that has enabled new capabilities for end users (e.g. smaller
> > > initial install footprint and install-on-demand dependencies) and
> > > extension developers alike. We will be making further investments to
> > > improve this. MSI didn't ship with patching support in 1.0. Any feature
> > grows over time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But I need a commitment from Rob that a merge based on the WIP (plus
> > > your feedback about a warning) would be accepted. We are prepared to
> > > pull the existing VS15.wxs file (as the WIP calls out: it doesn't work
> > > anyway) and publish an open source EXE I eluded to in the WIP with
> > > sample WiX authoring that could run in a Burn bundle (or any chainer).
> > > This EXE would basically do what the CAs do now: try to cocreate the
> > > COM server, and if that fails use registry detection to check for
> > > Dev14 and older, then pass through arguments to VSIXInstaller.exe.
> > > Since it would run outside f an MSI, there's no more of a chance of
> > concurrent MSI packages than normally (i.e.
> > > another install starts, like via Windows Update).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That would certainly work around the issue of possibly installing MSIs
> > > when running within an MSI, but we feel doesn't provide a seamless
> > > experiencing upgrading package authoring for MSIs that install VSIXes
> > > to support VS2017. With workload and/or component IDs authored or
> > > harvested, customers would have the option to fail if no instances are
> > > compatible (default), which is practically no different than not
> > > finding a SKU and/or version the extension supports and, therefore,
> > > not installing anything on-demand.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you please confirm whether a merge to support VSIXInstaller.exe in
> > > MSIs will be accepted or declined, or should we simply go with the
> > > external EXE approach?
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant
> > > http://www.firegiant.com/
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant
> > > http://www.firegiant.com/
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant
> > > http://www.firegiant.com/
> > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant
> > http://www.firegiant.com/ ______________________________
> > ______________________________________
> > WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant
> > http://www.firegiant.com/
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant
> http://www.firegiant.com/
>
____________________________________________________________________
WiX Toolset Developer Mailing List provided by FireGiant http://www.firegiant.com/